The Interview Pit: Three things you definitely want to avoid.
by Ken Sanders, CPCU, AIC
Claims magazine, September 2004

Woody Allen once said, “90% of success is just showing up”. I have found that 90% of getting a job is not saying something dumb to eliminate yourself. Getting promoted into management is a top priority for many professionals in the claims field. With promotions come more responsibility, greater recognition and increased compensation.

During my career I have seen qualified people miss out on promotional opportunities because of the way they went about the final interview. Most go about the process as they would for any job they’ve applied for in the past. Landing that first job in management usually takes a great deal more than selling yourself and answering interview questions. Most people take themselves out of the running in the final interview by making key mistakes. I’ll make my point by allowing you to listen in on a conversation I had with a former co-worker, Doug, who was devastated over being turned down for a Branch Claims Manager position.

Doug was a Supervisor who I had worked with as an adjuster. He had applied for an open Branch Claims Manager position in an office in another state and had just received the news that he did not get the job. Doug came to me quite distraught.

“I know I deserve this job. I’ve worked harder and produced better results than anybody. I just can’t figure out what went wrong”.

I knew Doug was well qualified, had a great deal of experience and, most importantly, was ready to take this next step in his career path. I had watched him advance from a Claims Adjuster trainee to a Litigation Supervisor in a very short time. I had to admit, I was curious myself. What had gone wrong? Was this just office politics, the “Good Old Boy” system, or had Doug simply just blown it in the interview?

He continued, “I interviewed with H.R. and I passed a competency exam. They wouldn’t have let me interview with the Claims Director if I hadn’t done well in the H.R. interview or on the exam. It must have been the interview with the Director.”

“Well, tell me about the interview”, I said. “I’ve got a few minutes, maybe I can help you figure out what went wrong and coach you for the next time you interview for a promotion. What happened during your interview?”

Doug, sighing heavily, said, “You see, I wanted to start off the interview showing the Director that I was an aggressive person and not afraid to take charge. I told the Director exactly what I would need in the way of resources, staff and most importantly, my new salary. I wanted to make my demands and needs for success known right away. I figured that once I got the job, I would never have the opportunity to tell him what I needed again”.

I took some notes and encouraged Doug to continue.

“Then, the director asked for my immediate and long term plans for this branch. I told him I want to take the first 10 days to get my feet wet, and then I will start my plan”

“Hmmm”, I said

Doug continued, “Then he asked me what I thought the assets of the branch were, as well as any areas of concern for the branch. I told him I couldn’t answer that question because I have never worked in that branch and I really want to asses the branch after I start working there.”

“Why did you do that?” I asked.

“Because I didn’t want him to think I wasn’t open minded. What are you writing?”

“Just some notes. Go on” I said. I was gaining insight as to why Doug didn’t get the job, but I kept taking notes. I was hoping Doug wasn't going to take my feedback too hard.

Another big sigh from Doug, and then, “He then asked me to talk about my strengths. I had no problem there. I talked about my accomplishments, qualifications and experience. I felt like I was on Late Night doing the Top Ten Reasons the Company Should Hire Doug. But then the director tried to catch me in that old trap of asking me to list my weaknesses”

“Maybe it wasn’t a trap, maybe he…”

“Oh, it was a trap.” Doug insisted. “I said I didn’t have any weak areas, and that’s why I am the best candidate for the Branch Claims Manager position. But he kept pushing by asking more questions about what I thought I could improve upon. He even went so far as to ask me to tell him anything I could remember from my past performance reviews that I was told I could improve upon”

Holding a faint smile, hoping not to hear the worst answer Doug cold have given, I asked “What did you tell him”

“I couldn’t really think of anything. I mean, I know there has been stuff in some of my performance reviews, but they were either too little to worry about, or dumb things. I just couldn’t remember, so I told him I didn’t really remember, but if he wanted, I could get him copies of my past performance reviews”

Well, there it was. The worst answer Doug could have given. Wanting desperately to find something encouraging to tell Doug, I asked, “anything else?”

“I’m just glad I didn’t fall for that trap and stuck to my guns”, Doug said proudly “Otherwise, the director might have thought that I was weak and couldn’t do the job. I can’t understand what happened; I thought I made such a great impression during the interview”.

Doug had made an impression all right; just not the impression he had hoped for.

Doug had made what I believe are the three most common mistakes that claims people make when interviewing for claims management positions. Although there are numerous ways to make a bad impression, these examples are my top three.

• Starting an interview with a list of demands
• Showing up without a plan
• Failing to identify what you need to do, or have done, to improve yourself

Starting an interview with a list of demands. By starting an interview with a list of demands, Doug was telling the director that he will always see himself as the most important person in the organization. He is also showing he will not be able to do what is best for the operation or the company as a whole. Doug should have presented any concerns he had about resources or salary as questions when given the opportunity. These could have been framed around his observations and assessment of the position and the operation.

Opening up with demands is a sure fire way to fail. One interviewee lost a position solely because he asked to be sent to a state-of-the-art training program. When he was asked why, he told the hiring manager it was so he could be more marketable for the future.

Doug should have remembered that he is the one asking for the job. Therefore he should center the interview on what he can do for the company. The interview is the place to sell one’s ability to manage. Doug could have used it to set the stage to communicate with this new boss which would allow him to be more effective in getting the resources he needs once he gets the job. Demonstrating that his interests lie in what is best for him is something that did not work to his advantage.

Showing up without a plan. The most successful job candidates come to the interview with a plan of what they will do when they get the job. They come prepared with a plan that includes observed concerns, improvement steps, success measurements and goals. Doug should have gone to the interview with the mind set that he was meeting with his new boss on his first day to discuss his plans to improve the organization. This would have made Doug appear more confident and demonstrated that he is someone who will identify opportunities and take steps to improve the department.

Example: A friend of mine went to an interview to head up a company that provided services to claims operations. Days before, he contacted every claims manager he knew from many different companies, and asked them questions about the company he was going to interview with. He asked about what they liked, and didn’t’ like. He asked for suggestions on making improvements. The day of the interview, he showed up the names of 20 claims managers who all said they would start using their services if certain problems were improved. He also had some tentative ideas on how he could accomplish those things. Needless to say, he got the job.

Taking the time to write out a plan also would have helped Doug prepare for the interview. It would have forced Doug to think about the position and focus on the issues that most likely would be part of the questions he will be asked. Making plans for developing people, achieving results or moving the operation to the next level are what managers do; therefore, why not demonstrate this when interviewing for the job? It would be important for Doug to include concerns, solutions, goals and measurements in his plan to show that he is capable of viewing the entire picture from beginning to end. I have interviewed many, many candidates for claims managerial positions, and the ones that come prepared with a plan for success, even if it’s just in their head, usually succeed.

Failing to identify what you need to do, or have done, to improve yourself. This last area is where I have seen many candidates self destruct in their interviews. Many candidates believe that when this question is asked, the interviewer is looking for items to help eliminate them from a job, or have a list of things to fix later. This is usually far from the truth. Most interviewers are looking for varied characteristics, such as: humility; an ability to be self critical; willingness toward self improvement; capacity to accept feedback and criticism; ability to improve others, etc.

Of all of the possible answers to this question, two stand out as the absolute worst. The second worst answer is, “I don’t have any weaknesses”. To be a successful leader at any level one must be able to identify what one does well, what one does not do so well, and be able to say so. Then, even better, to be able to explain what steps have been taken to improve.

The worst answer is, of course, “I don’t remember”. This tells the interviewer that the candidate is not receptive to feedback to the point of not even remembering what was said to them. It also indicates to the interviewer that the candidate has no intention of changing. After all, how can someone change something they can’t even remember?

The best answer to this question is, “I have been told I don’t do this well. So, this is what I did to improve, and it’s working.” I have at times had to give feedback to people myself that I didn’t hire. Usually once I tell someone I have eliminated them from competition for a management job over my concerns that they don’t accept constructive feedback, I usually get, “that’s not true”. It’s kind of like the person who, when being told he has an argumentative personality, says “no I don’t”, and proceeds to argue.

Doug sabotaged his chances by falling into all three of these categories, but really any one of them could have done him in. I gave Doug the information I have just outlined above. The next time Doug goes into an interview, I hope he will know the job; prepare a plan; demonstrate confidence to do the job; acknowledge his weaknesses as well as his strengths, and engaged in something to actively improve himself.

Actually, I kind of wish I had more time to chat with Doug. If I had, you might be reading about the top six things to avoid.

Ken Sanders is Executive Vice President of International Insurance Institute ^SM, Inc.; and has over 20 years of claims management and interviewing experience. Mr. Sanders heads up the Temporary Employee and Permanent Placement divisions of III and is based in Phoenix, AZ. He can be reached at 480-705-4093.

Quotes to use in body of article.

The most successful job candidates come to the interview with a plan of what they will do when they get the job. They come prepared with a plan that includes observed concerns, improvement steps, success measurements and goals.

-Ken Sanders

Making plans for developing people, achieving results or moving the operation to the next level are what managers do; therefore, why not demonstrate this when interviewing for the job?

-Ken Sanders

Most interviewers are looking for varied characteristics, such as: humility; an ability to be self critical; willingness toward self improvement; capacity to accept feedback and criticism; ability to improve others, etc.

-Ken Sanders